Eyes flashing, head up, he struts around Manhattan all five feet six inches of him like he owns the streets. And since hes Sidney Lumet, he damn near does. For half a century, this native New Yorker (OK, he was born in Philly, but like he says, I got out in a year) has directed dozens of movies in and around the citys five boroughs, reveling in its diversity, catching the glamour, the grit, even the moral stench.
Lumet on Lumet: The Director Takes a Fresh Look at a Handful of the Film Classics That Made His Reputation
He has poked his camera into a jury room (12 Angry Men), the mind of a Holocaust survivor (The Pawnbroker), a bank heist (Dog Day Afternoon), a drug bust (Q&A), the power corridors of TV (Network) and the corrupt corners of the justice system (Serpico, Prince of the City). His latest, Before the Devil Knows Youre Dead, is a return to feisty form after a bumpy stretch that began in 1992 when he miscast Melanie Griffith as a cop infiltrating a sect of Hasidic Jews in A Stranger Among Us. Devil, shot on high-def video with the ballsy energy of a renegade a thbird Lumets age, is the real deal. Philip Seymour Hoffman and Ethan Hawke play desperate brothers who plan to rob their parents jewelry store in Westchester County, a safe bet that instead sparks a family tragedy out of Eugene ONeill. How like Lumet. You sit down for a caper and get the emotional rug pulled out from under you.
This article appears in the February 7, 2008 issue of Rolling Stone. The issue is available in the online archive.
We meet at his office on the top floor of the Ansonia, a historic building that once housed Enrico Caruso, Babe Ruth and the sex club Platos Retreat. An eight-block walk from the West Side apartment where he lives with Mary Gimbel, his wife since 1980, the shoe box of an office looks like, well, shit. A peek through a tiny window reveals pigeons flying over the city he adores. Otherwise, its a desk, two chairs and nothing on the white walls to suggest a life that accumulated four wives, two daughters, an Army stint in Burma and a reputation for social protest. And nothing about the career of a master who started as a child actor onstage, moved on to directing live TV and then movies that amassed five Academy Award nominations for him, seventeen nominations for the actors in them and an honorary Oscar in 2005 for life achievement. Lumet leaves the celebrating to others hes still achieving.
Video: Peter Travers on Sidney Lumets Film Career
Ill start by saying congratulations. Its been fifty years since you made your first movie, 12 Angry Men. Devil is your forty-fifth feature.
Youre putting me on. Im not, and you know it. Are these tributes getting to be a pain in the ass? In all honesty, I dont look at my movies. When theyre over, theyre over. If I run across one of them on the box, I might look in for five minutes. As for that honorary Oscar, I think maybe theyre saying, Were surprised youre still alive [laughs]. You usually get these things a few months before you die. The last thing I know anything about is the thinking on the West Coast. They called me out there from New York when 12 Angry Men came out and got nominated. I was the hot thing, you know, the new flavor. They had this picture they wanted me to do with 5,000 battleships, the works. And I said to the studio head, Look, all you see in my movie is twelve guys in a jury room. How do you know I can do this? And he said, Were looking for a young Lewis Milestone.
Q&A: Sidney Lumet is Still Mad As Hell
Didnt he win an Oscar for directing All Quiet on the Western Front?
Right. Lewis was in his early sixties, and I happened to know that he had developed a case of shingles because he couldnt get a fucking job. The irritation and frustration had mounted to such a degree that he was wearing white gloves to hide the rash. So I asked, Whats wrong with the old Lewis Milestone? That broke up the meeting fast [laughs].
So youre saying ageism has always been a problem in Hollywood?
Yes, that sense of being nervous about older people. America is a country that throws away old things, and I guess that includes us directors. What surprises studios is that anybody as old as I am can still function well. On Devil, you wouldnt believe the number of reviews that have mentioned my age right away eighty-three-year-old Sidney Lumet, da da da da da. Its a little silly.
Youre not wearing white gloves, so Im figuring your age didnt hurt in getting the financing for Devil?
It wasnt easy, but it wasnt grueling, either. Theres a lot of private money in movies now. Devil is privately financed. Its a positive development, but its also a two-edged sword. These people dont understand word one about film.
So what gets these financers interested? Profit? Their name onscreen?
Theyre interested in getting laid. To them, the girls involved in movies are all 36-D cup. I walked into the Beverly Hills Hotel years ago, and one of these guys was sitting in the Polo Lounge, smashed out of his mind, with an arm around a girl on his left and an arm around a girl on his right, groping for a tit on each side. That was as bold a thing as Id ever seen then. And none of its changed [laughs]. These are the constants in life.
Lets walk through a little history here. Youve been nominated for an Oscar as Best Director four times. And you havent won yet. Do you think theres still a shot?
As long as Im alive.
Youre not pissed about not winning?
I hate to sound like a smart person [laughs]. But Ive always had the perspective that its the work that matters. So thats been where the concentration has gone. I didnt even go out for the Oscar show when I was nominated on 12 Angry Men. Its not out of nobility. Im thrilled that they gave me an honorary one. I clutched it. You wouldnt have been able to pull it out of my hand without killing me. One of the reasons is I love a hit. And the best thing about awards is that they can get me the money for three more flops. Ive been a minority in terms of the establishment part of the business. Im from New York.
Isnt there a New York establishment?
Ive never been aware of one. I dont see Marty Scorsese socially, and theres nobodys work I admire more. Woody Allen? Never. [The artist] Julian Schnabel and I talk, but we were friends before he became a movie director. Maybe they just dont include me. As far as I know, the New York film cabal doesnt exist.
Lets get to your latest New York movie: You open Devil with a hot sex scene, which is not in the Lumet tradition.
Right. I dont do fucking scenes.
So why this time? The first thing we see is a naked Philip Seymour Hoffman and Marisa Tomei going at it in a hotel room in Brazil. Were you trying to make a today movie with a porn-Web-site vibe?
I dont know what the fuck today is, any more than I know what a commercial movie is. The reason for the sex scene is simple. Andy, Hoffmans character, is going to do some very unpleasant things during the body of this movie. Its therefore important to know what it is he wants, whats driving him. And he wants his idea of fancy sex fancy only because he cant really function unless hes away from the city, away from his brother, from his parents. Hes one of those people who needs the cruise-ship mentality to function sexually.
Tomei naked, I get it. But Hoffman?
Thats the point. Hes overweight. Hes got a big ass. And to top it off, hes looking at himself in the mirror. But you have to know what his character wants. So it was the first thing I added.
After you made them brothers.
Right. They were just friends in Kelly Mastersons script. People often talk about the family dynamics in my movies, maybe because in 1962 I did Long Days Journey Into Night with Katharine Hepburn. That one says it all about family. But looking at my work that way would inhibit me. Its like if I had to come up with some defense for each movie of mine that fails at the box office. I cant. I dont have enough ego to say, Thats a good movie. Fuck you if you dont know it. But I know it. I dont forget [laughs].
Was it easy casting the movie, getting Hoffman and Hawke?
Wonderfully easy. I sent the script first to Philip, one of the finest actors in the country, and I gave him the choice to play either brother: Hank or Andy. Then I sent it to Ethan. And Ethan said he wanted to play Hank. I was surprised, because Hank is a weak character, and most actors are afraid of that. But Ethan had this image of how to activate a weak man. Hes always in motion. I preferred Andy to be older, to be the influence on Hank, pushing him. So I called Philip back, and he said, Great. That simple. Marisa Tomei was my first choice to play Andys wife, whos cheating on him with Hank. Marisa is wonderful after that sex scene, when sadness overwhelms her. I love that moment. I also love it when Albert Finney, as the father, walks down the hospital corridor at the end. Theres another scene in the script after that with Ethan and Marisa, but I didnt use it. I knew the movie was over when Albert walked out. It doesnt matter what happens after. Let the audience wonder.
Youve made some movies A Stranger Among Us, The Wiz, Family Business that youve been hammered for. How does that make you feel?
It hurts. But what happens over time maybe its because I started so early as an actor, four years old theres always been a leveling influence. I dont plunge into despair. And when it works well, I dont go wild with joy. Now maybe Im missing something. Maybe Ive reduced the size of my life. I dont think so. I think its the sensible way to work.
You were praised for your book Making Movies, in which you said, Ive done two movies because I needed the money. Ive done three because I love to work and couldnt wait anymore. Do you know a movie will suck while youre making it?
In one, I knew at the end of the second week of rehearsal. And the other one, I knew on the second day of shooting. And the terrible thing is theres nobody I can talk to, because Im the director [laughs]. I cant tell the actors. Theyll go running to the hills and scream, and be totally useless. So Im stuck with this knowledge. And now Ive got to go through eight weeks, whatever the shooting schedule is. But you do know.
It must be a special kind of torture.
It is. What helps is that all of us have this never-ending talent for self-deception [laughs]. You need that self-deception just to go to work.
OK, lets look at some Lumet classics from the 1970s. Whats your memory of Dog Day Afternoon, with Al Pacino as a bank robber who takes hostages? Its the quintessential New York movie.
Well, my biggest memory of it is how high we were. I think we did that movie in, like, thirty-two days. And thats 500 fucking people in the street all the time. Part of the exhilaration came from Als performance, because he was so screaming high. He was two octaves above C.
Was he living this part?
He was so terrified of it that the only way he could get through it was to turn himself into an obsessed actor, although hes always obsessed, really. Do you know that the day before we started shooting, he quit?
Youre kidding, right?
He asked me and the screenwriter, Frank Pierson, to come up to his house for some cockamamie reason. It was preshooting terror. And we walked in. He was crawling around on all fours, barking like a dog. And I know Als not crazy. Nor is he a lunatic when he works. Hes got very solid technique, knows what hes doing. I said, Al, what the fuck is this? He said, Im out of control. I cant do this one. At the time, I dont think thered ever been a major Hollywood star who had played a gay man, much less a gay man who wanted to marry another guy, much less steal to get the money for the guys sex-change operation. The terror for Al came in realizing what he had committed to. The Godfather had already opened, and he was at the top. Plus, he had a Godfather II start date waiting, a week after we finished. So it was all beginning for him.
How did you talk him off the ledge?
The only thing that worked was to get up on a ledge with him. There was no hint of analysis on my part, no attempt to say, Al, calm down. I just kept relating his present state of mind to the character and what the character must have felt like when he decided to rob the bank. I had such faith in him as an actor, having worked with him already in Serpico, that I knew way back in his head the actor part of him would be digesting all these feelings and saying, Hey, I can use that in the performance. It was no problem. He showed up the next day.
What about your state of mind on a movie set? Do you carry a whip to lay down the law? Are you a shouter?
Never shouting. Always calm, unless Ive got a lunatic on the set. I work with great good humor, very close to the crew. Its very relaxed. And one of the things I told Al, I said, Youre a real pain in the ass. Because at that time, he was one of those actors who had to stay in the state that the scene demanded. If the scene was in great anger, hed be fucking angry all day kicking things, speaking rudely to people. And I said, Al, Ive got to get you together with Albert Finney, who Id worked with in Murder on the Orient Express. With him, you say, Cut, and he steps out, stays quiet and thinks about the next scene. With you, when the character has a bad day, you give us a bad day. He listened it was good.
Ive been on a Lumet set youre very affectionate with people, a toucher, a kisser.
The fastest kiss in the East [laughs]. Look, on a movie, were all giving each other something precious. No bullshit, I cant think of a better job. Its not a technique. Im not a fool. I think Im a talented man. But then theres luck. I think theres a reason luck doesnt always happen to others. They dont know how to prepare the groundwork for luck. I do.
How does one prepare for luck?
Work. Its something that Im so dependent on: work. Three of the worst moments generated from the outside the bombing of Pearl Harbor, when JFK was shot and 9/11 in all three instances, I broke for lunch, and we came back an hour later and resumed work. There was no dwelling on it. We had our work to do. It absolutely had to go on, even if I could feel resentment from the crew.
On 9/11, you were shooting 100 Centre Street for cable TV.
Right. I arrived around 9:10 a.m., and coming over the Triborough Bridge, I saw Tower Two go down. And there was never a doubt in my mind that we should continue. I called everybody together, and I said, If youre worried about your families, go, please. But if there are enough of you left, I want to keep on working. I had cots brought in so we could sleep at the studio. And then the following day, Wednesday, when we went back out on location, members of that crew came up and said, Sidney, you were so right for us to keep working, because all we would have done is go home and watch the fucking box, same shots over and over, of everything falling.
Speaking of the box brings us to Network. Peter Finch won the first posthumous Oscar, for playing a crazed TV anchor whos mad as hell because TV will do anything for ratings, including film robberies and executions. This was in 1976. You and writer Paddy Chayefsky actually foresaw the birth of reality TV.
People would say to me and Paddy, Its a brilliant satire. And wed say, What satire? Its sheer reportage [laughs]. We had the feeling while making Network that something special was happening. But it wasnt totally joyful making it. I was so worried about my comedy skills. I was very good at making jokes. But here, working with Chayefsky, who was the modern Molire, the jokes were about the most serious things.
When you direct something like the mad as hell scene, are you aware its going to have an impact on the zeitgeist?
Not when Im doing it. But I knew that mad as hell had to be done in total truthfulness. And it was such a sense of devotion and participation by Peter Finch on the first take. And I wanted to do another. Start slower, I said, and lets see what we get. And we started Take Two, and Peter stopped in the middle. I didnt know about his heart condition then. He wasnt saying anything, because it would have made him uninsurable. He just stopped and said, Sidney, I cant go on. I said, OK, lets not push it. And what you see in the movie is that first half of the speech from Take Two, and the rest from Take One. He was dead a few months later.
You seem to have a genuine connection with actors. Youre probably the only director, living or dead, who has ever directed both Marlon Brando and Vin Diesel. Is it because you began your career as an actor?
I understand what theyre going through. The self-exposure, which is at the heart of all their work, is done using their own body. Its their sexuality, their strength or weakness, their fear. And thats extremely painful. And when theyre not doing it in their performance, they pull back. They get shy. Paul Newman, who I worked with on The Verdict, is one of the shyest men Ive ever met. Thats why rehearsal is so important.
How long to rehearse on a movie?
Sometimes three weeks Long Days Journey Into Night was four weeks. It depends on the complexity of the characters. That way the actors get confidence in what I see in them. Actors have told me, angrily, about directors who dont see. Thats the reason Marlon Brando was a tester. He would test to see if the director understood what he was doing.
How did Brando test you?
He tested me the second day we were shooting The Fugitive Kind. He would do two takes. But in one, he was working from the inside. In the other, he was just what we call indicating it. Doing the same vocal pattern, the same physical pattern, but not really playing it. He watched to see which take I printed.
And what if you picked wrong?
Oh, you are fucked from there on in [laughs]. Because he is not going to pour it out for somebody who doesnt see it.
What about your movie orphans, the ones no one takes home and gives careful attention, even on DVD?
Daniel is one because of my love for that script Edgar Doctorow did from his own book [a fictionalized version of the Rosenbergs and their execution for spying] and for the theme: the cost children pay for their parents passions. The failure of that movie got me to do two more movies, Running on Empty and the silly, bad Family Business, with the exact same theme. Crazy.
Lets try an experiment: Pretend that you just got a script. And its called The Sidney Lumet Story.
Im saying no right now [laughs].
Humor me. I want to know where the movie starts. Do you paint a rosy picture of your life as the child of Baruch Lumet, a star of the Yiddish theater? You have a father, and then you have this guy whos also up on the stage. Is there a disconnect?
He was no father figure. He was only a father up on the stage. Its the only time I liked him. He was a terrible man.
Did he lose his patience with you?
He didnt have patience. He had a bad temper. He hit us. He was probably unfaithful to my mother all the time. I dont know. But she sure complained about him. I could hear the fights. Nothing admirable about him, until he went to work. And then he was admirable.
And how was he when you started to get in his game and act?
Thrilled. This was during the Depression. So when I worked, we ate. He wasnt working that often. The Yiddish theater was well past its great days. He was a very talented actor, but he had an accent a heavy accent, Polish so he never could work on Broadway. And eating was a problem for a long time, until I began working steadily on Broadway.
And your mom was what? Worried?
She was supportive. We ate regularly when I worked.
Any siblings?
A sister, older, and I think she probably had some resentment because, among other things, I got all the attention.
Did you like it?
Loved it [laughs]! As Mel Brooks said, its fun to be the king.
You started acting onstage when you were four. At eleven, you made your Broadway debut in Dead End. I found a New York Times review of your stage performance in My Hearts in the Highlands. It said, Lumet, as the boy, was charming and showed a manly technique. What manly things were you doing?
I was acting the part. One of the points of the play was that my father is a poet, and Im the kid, thirteen, and Im taking care of him, cause he cant do squat about life. Im the one who gets us through it.
Just like at home?
Exactly.
On to Hollywood: What was the first acting you did in front of the camera?
Just did it once: One Third of a Nation. I was fifteen.
How would you direct that scene in your movie biopic?
To show the terror. The director was maddening. And he knew nothing about actors, or working with them. The star was Sylvia Sidney, who, youll pardon me speaking badly of the dead, was a nasty old cunt. When it was time for my closeup, the director said, Sylvia, please give him the lines, instead of the script girl. She was so resentful of that, she sat there clicking her knitting needles. She was a great knitter. Not one look at me, just mumbling. She was terrible. The whole experience was lousy.
Actings loss, directings gain. How does it make you feel when you run into younger filmmakers, like George Clooney, who say, Mr. Lumet, I admire your work so much that Im stealing from it?
I dont know what the fuck theyre talking about. I dont know what theyre stealing, because, to me, the style of every movie is determined by the script. As far as I can see, there is no Lumet style. I pour myself into it, but I dont know what theyre extracting. I swear I dont. Im thrilled that a movie of mine has a resonance for somebody that I never intended, cause that means I did it well, but I never know what it is.
OK, weird last question: What was your first memory?
Hmm. I think . . . its at a very young age. I remember being in my carriage, and we lived on the Lower East Side then, and it was a rough place to live. And I remember somebody putting a snowball under my hat, next to my ear. And the cold, I swear I remember feeling it.
Its tactile like you, like your movies.
Its a feeling. It has no judgment. Im starting a new movie now, Getting Out. Its a prison picture. I wrote it. And I have a feeling about that, too. A feeling, no judgment. Just off we go.
Lumet on Lumet: The Director Takes a Fresh Look at a Handful of the Film Classics That Made His Reputation
12 Angry Men, 1957 Henry Fonda has to talk sense to the other jurors Lee J. Cobb (above) played a racist. One room. People think the smaller a movie is, the simpler it is. Not so. When I tell Lumet the fi lm is the fave of Harry Potter (Daniel Radcliffe), he smiles.
Serpico, 1973 Al Pacinos talent is just blinding. His Frank Serpico is a New York cop protesting cop corruption. Protesting is what mattered to him. That got to me. I was brought up Orthodox. The Jewish ethic is stern, moralistic. I thought like that very early.
Network, 1976 Peter Finchs TV news anchor yelling Im mad as hell is a sane man yelling at an insane world. The writer, Paddy Chayefsky, was prescient. The only thing that hasnt happened yet from that movie is a reality show where they shoot someone on the air.
Prince of the City, 1981 This was Treat Williams playing a cop who crosses the line. I remember we shot it all over the city, hundreds of locations. I have never paid so much attention directing a movie. New York always gives me back as much as I put into it.
The Verdict, 1982 Paul Newmans lawyer, as David Mamet wrote him, is looking for salvation. Its about the separation between the law and what justice actually is. Lumets fast pace made Newman joke that Lumet could doublepark in front of a whorehouse.
