Kathleen Hanna: I Didnt Want Men to Validate Me

The Punk Singer starring Kathleen Hanna offers an intimate biographical portrait of the feminist art-punk icon, from her scrappy beginnings in Olympia, Washington, to the formation of Bikini Kill, the launch of the Riot Grrrl movement, Le Tigre and her latest band, the Julie Ruin. The film, which opens Friday in New York and Los Angeles, also steps inside her life with husband (and Beastie Boy) Adam Horovitz, as an ongoing struggle with late-stage Lyme disease forced her to step away from Le Tigre and go into treatment.

With interviews from Carrie Brownstein, Joan Jett, Corin Tucker, Kim Gordon and Rookie magazines Tavi Gevinson, director Sini Anderson plants Hanna firmly in the context of third-wave feminism and the bands she influenced. Rolling Stone caught up with Hanna at a recent screening of the film and she told us why she didnt want male talking heads interviewed, her thoughts on Taylor Swift and her plans to release another album with the Julie Ruin next year.

How are you feeling? Youre playing shows.
Im doing good. I still have bad weeks and good weeks. Actually, right now Im in treatment, so Im a little off, but Im well enough to be here, which is great.

Youve been so open in the past, but this was a new level. What was it like to open yourself up like this?
Well, Ive known Sini, who shot everything, for, like, 15 years, so I knew that I could give her everything and if there was something that I was like, Um, no, I could take it back. But if it was somebody I didnt know, I dont think I would have felt that way.

Was it true that you didnt want any male talking heads in the film initially?
Yeah. I specifically mentioned Ian MacKaye, Calvin Johnson and Thurston Moore all people who I totally respect. But I really wanted Tobi [Vail], the drummer for Bikini Kill, because she knows everything about music. She taught me everything I know about music. She put me on the road of what records to get. Without her I never would have been in a band and kept being in bands. And she can contextualize the Nineties the music scene and contextualize what Ive done. But shes really shy.

Why didnt you want those guys to talk?
I just didnt want any male authorities telling people what good music was. I didnt want men to validate me. And it was really a fine line of having my husband be in it, and having the story about Smells Like Teen Spirit be in it. I dont want to ever be viewed in context of Shes the Smells Like Teen Spirit girl or She married Ad-Rock from the Beastie Boys. But at the same time, its a movie about me and my life am I going to leave the Smells Like Teen Spirit thing out? Really? Thats crazy. And my love story with my husband is like . . . Im really proud to be associated with him, hes fucking wonderful, and I think hes really funny in the movie. At first I didnt think he should be in it. And then I saw it, and I felt like, how we actually are was portrayed perfectly what our relationship is. I thought it was really beautiful, and maybe because its me, but I really like the love story. Im a sucker for that shit.

I love your rings. [She wears a gold ring that says Adam, he wears one that says Kathleen.]
His idea, not mine.

What era of feminism are we in right now?
I think were starting in the fourth wave, and what I see on the underground is theres this great project called People of Color Zine Project. And theres a lot of women who have critiqued Riot Grrrl in terms of class and race, and there really wasnt a lot of productive conversations that happened that made Riot Grrrl that inclusive. And all of these critiques are leading to new projects.

Gloria Steinem told me earlier this year that she thought the biggest challenge facing women was the womb.
Wow, thats so weird.

It was kind of weird. What do you think the challenge for women is right now?
Poverty.

Why?
Because if youre just trying to put food on the table, youre not part of the conversation. Everybody else is making decisions for you. And in terms of the feminist movement, if we dont hear from a huge, huge, huge segment of the population, and they arent involved in creating the feminist movement, then the feminist movement dies.

What do you think of Taylor Swift?
Ive called her a feminist. I dont think she calls herself that, which is totally fine, but she writes her own songs, and shes a young girl thats singing to other young girls. Thats awesome. Whats wrong with that? I dont like every woman in pop music, but its not the woman, its the music. And I need to be able to say I dont like Lady Gagas music, and that doesnt mean Im slamming Lady Gaga. That doesnt mean Im saying PJ Harveys a bitch.

Do you like Taylor Swifts music?
I actually do like some of Taylors music. And I like Mylie Cyrus. I like Party in the U.S.A. and The Climb those are two of my favorite songs. I like Kelly Clarkson.

I like the new Miley.
Im not that into it. Im kind of like old-Miley, kind of like Hannah Montana Miley. I like watching Disney at home.

Are you guys planning to get back into the studio?
We have a bunch of songs that are already written for the next album, so right now its just about making videos until the spring.

When do you think youll release another album?
Probably next year, next January. Thats probably the worst month. I dont know what a good month is. I need to hire somebody to tell me.

And do you have a sense of the direction?
I think its going to be really depressing. Because I was in a really bad place when we wrote this album and a lot of the songs are really happy, and I was like, now that Im really happy I know Im going to write, like, really sad songs. I already wrote one thats like a really sad country song.